Talk:History of the Space Pirates
Are these timeframe-edits accurate? I remember that Samus was out for a month after the Norion incident (and that the Hunters ceased contact a week prior to that), but I don't recall the exact timing of the Valhalla raid or Aether Mission before it (though I think that last one was a year). I think the unconcious period may have caused a discrepancy, but I want the editor to make certain. ChozoBoy 14:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC) The manaul for Metroid Prime 3, I believe, said that Metroid Prime 3 takes place 6 months after Prime 2. As for the Valhalla raid, Grand Admiral Dane says that it took place 4 months before the beginning of Prime 3. On another subject, should we really include information from the Metroid E-Manga. I have doubts about its canonicity, seeing as I have discovered that it was NOT written by Yoshio Sakamoto. User:Tuckerscreator 14:02 22 March 2009. I'm pretty sure that MP3C doesn't have any story in the manual, and that the time after Echoes (whatever it was) came from an interview or something. What I was asking earlier was did you take the one month time skip into account (Samus was knocked out for a month after the assault on Norion, if you recall). I'm pretty sure the time that Valhalla was lost was stated after the one month time skip. The E-manga was based on the first two chapters of Metroid: Volume 1, which was published in 2002, 2 years before Metroid Zero Mission. I don't know who wrote it, but the manga uses the same art style, depicts Old Bird in the same way, shows the Space Pirate Mother Ship and Samus's new ship, cuts off right before the new in-game content, shows the new bosses, was liscenced by Nintendo, etc. It is undoubtedly canon. ChozoBoy 23:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC) I went back, and i found my sources for the time period. The "6 months after Metroid Prime 2" came from an issue of Nintendo Power on Prime 3. As and the loss of the Valhalla was stated in this quote from Grand Admiral Dane during the mission briefing on the GFS Olympus: "Four months ago the GFS Valhalla was sent on a training mission in Klar Nebula." As for the real author of the E-Manga, it was written by Kouji Tazawa(script) and Kenji Ishikawa(art). I still have my doubts about it's canonicity, as licensed by Nintendo isn't the same as confirmed by Nintendo, but I suppose, for the purposes of this article, unless some other source superceeds it, the E-Manga information will stay. What this article REALLY needs is more images. User:Tuckerscreator 18:10 22 March 2009 Okay, thanks man. Images weren't really the first thing I would have thought of in a history article (especially with how much was wrong in the text earlier), but it would probably help to make it more readable. I guess images of significant Pirate events would be the best thing to look for, along with the usual fare. ChozoBoy 01:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC) So I've gone in now and added images to the article, to make it more appealing and to break the monotony of pure text. Feel free to fix these pictures in any way you want. Speaking of which, do you think we should pictures to the other lore articles? I think they would be useful to the break up the monotony of pure text, as well as providing a more active reference to what is being spoken about in the lore. User:Tuckerscreator 13:01 29 March 2009 Be my guest! ChozoBoy 20:12, 29 March 2009 (UTC) Why is there no mention of Weavel in this Space Pirate history page, and his mission to try and obtain the "ultimate power"?DragonTetra I didn't write in Weavel, because this history is about the Space Pirates as a whole, and it would start to defeat the purpose if it started to speak too much about a single individual. That and, I haven't played Metroid Prime hunters, so i can't write on the subject anyway. User:Tuckerscreator 10:44 11 May 2009 There are certainly more important things that are missing, but Weavel could get a small segment between Tallon IV and Aether. Historal writings do go into individuals, often. He isn't too complicated either, TC. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 22:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC) I would say that the Pirates sending one of their illustrious generals out on a solo mission to find something as potentially valuable as the "ultimate power" would be worthwhile when referring to their people as a whole. He as a person shouldn't be explored here, but his operation and its outcome should. Zeruel21 22:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC) Yeah, Maybe it should be indented though to separate it from the Phazon stuff, but to keep it in the correct timeframe. Weavel could easily be explained in a sentence or two. Just pretend you are giving American history and briefly summarizing General Custer before you talk about the events he was involved in, or something to that effect. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 23:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC) In that case, if Weavel's journey is included, then I where should I include his section, because I don't want to interrupt the part about Phazon, because I'll have to create an entire new section for an otherwise minor topic, then continue with Phazon. User:Tuckerscreator 16:47 11 May 2009 :Like I said, keep it brief and maybe indent it, if that looks like it will work. Keep it in the right chronological spot though. If it really looks out of place, we'll discuss it after it is added. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 12:16, 12 May 2009 (UTC) Phazon Is Gone Somebody here seems to have removed the line "All Phazon had been destroyed." All Phazon has been destroyed! I'll explain why here. 1. Aurora Unit 242 says at the end that Samus battle with Phazon was over. If Phazon isn't gone, then the GF would still have Phazon after corruption but we see in Fusion and Super Metroid that they don't. 2. Samus's corruption vanished right after she killed Phaaze. 3. There are no other corrupted planets with Phazon because Phazon has a "hive-mand" of sorts. All Phazon was symbiotically connected with the planet Phaaze itself, not with the Leviathan it came with. This is why after destroying a Leviathan, there would still be Phazon on the planet, bewcause destroying the core only destroys the PRODUCTION of Phazon on the planet. Any Phazon already released before then would still be alive because it's existence was connected to Phaaze. So when Phaaze died, all Phazon went with it. Phazon is gone and will not be featured again. Retro Studios has ended Phazon. User:Tuckerscreator 14:34 18 May 2009 There is nothing that I have seen that states that all Phazon is gone. The ending to Corruption does not say all Phazon is gone either. Unless there is an official source, Phazon being gone is just speculation. User:DragonTetra super metroid and fusion were before the idea of phazon was thought of.(and no real federation presense was observed in either) 2. samus' corruption ended after she killed dark samus Let me re-explain. The Aurora Unit 242 says: With the death of the planet Phaaze, Samus's battle with Phazon is over. If Phazon was still around, the death of Phaaze would not be victory anymore, as we can see as there is still clearly Phazon on their own planet, which they could have easily obtained it from. But as I explained, it would be a victory only if all Phazon vanished with Phaaze. Even though the Aurora Unit 242 may not said explicitly that all Phazon is gone, it can be reasonalby implied from that sentence and that is very likely Retro Studios explanation. Secondly, even if Samus's corruption was tied with Dark Samus, this not explain why Dark Samus died if Phazon is still around. Dark Samus's life was connected with Phazon, being a Phazon-based being, and if Phaaze had died, then under your theory, Dark Samus would still be alive. but since Phaaze took Dark Samus with it, then Phazon must gone. Furthermore, if Phazon is not gone, then why is Retro Studios choosing not to feature Phazon anymore? The existence of Phazon is a major problem and they wouldn't want to just leave it to run amok eveeywhere else. The easiest and most logical way for them is to say that all Phazon died with Phaaze, which is not a hard decision for them. Phazon must be gone, or then Retro Studios would be defying their own logic. User:Tuckerscreator 15:38 20 May 2009 :Retro has changed their stand and has defied logic before. In fact, they changed the Tallon IV Leviathan strike from occurring 20 years prior to Samus's arrival in the Phazon Analysis pirate data in Metroid Prime to 50 years in the Tallon IV Incident lore in Corruption. Not only that, Retro has a hard time sticking with a Samus look as well, as in each Prime Trilogy game she looks different. Additionally, they stated that the Prime Trilogy came before Super Metroid where Samus's intro for that game clearly does not state any Metroid encounters besides on Zebes and SR388. Retro went against the establishment of a pre-existing Metroid game in that regard. :Even if it is a likely explanation, we have not heard an explanation come from them. All that can be provided are fan theories, nothing official. Phaaze and Dark Samus are not the only Phazon beings either...besides, Dark Samus had been defeated prior to Phaaze's explosion. Dark Samus would be dead as it was overloaded with Phazon, just as the Phazon-based Leviathans were destroyed from Phazon overloads. It had nothing to do with Phaaze in my opinion. We also do not see Phazon going away on other planets, such as the Pirate Homeworld. :After I played Super Metroid, I expected to never see Metroids again in another game of the series yet sure enough Nintendo brought them back for Metroid Fusion. Nintendo could easily pull the same with Phazon, especially since nothing on Phazon being gone has been supported by Retro's own comments. Retro shot themselves in the foot with Phazon, and if they did intend for Phaaze's death to be the end of all Phazon (which is not known, but can be speculated) then it is more of a decision made out of laziness than anything logical. DragonTetra As I explained in the Talk:Tallon IV page, the difference in years regarding the date of the Leviathan's impact on Tallon IV was most likely either a mistake or a difference in Pirate calendars versus GF calendars. It can not be a retcon because the Chozo living there knew Samus prior to arrival, which means that accepting both would logically follow that Samus is 50 years old(Yeah, right!), whether as accepting solely the Pirate calendar,which looks to be the more accurate (based on their date of the discovery of Phazon being 2 years prior to MP3, an easily likely possbility) would then logically follow that Samus is roughly 20 years old(All Right!). As for Samus's changing appearance, this has been likely more due to the limitations of hardware at the time. Samus has stuck to pretty much the same look since Zero Mission, and I doubt that little conscious decision went to the differences between each one, except Prime Hunters's incarnation, which was probably to tie the game closer to Prime. We do not see Phazon disappear on other planets because we never get a chance to see any of those planets after the game ended. But we do see Phazon disappear elsewhere, such as Samus's own corruption, the Pirate starships that run on Phazon malfuntioning, and (if you look really closely)the Leviathan disinegrating before Phaaze's explosion destroys it. Retro has said many times that the Prime trilogy is over and that Phazon is not returning. They put that statement at the end of Metroid Prime 3 to settle it as a finality. This is why the Prime trilogy is over: because it revolved around Phazon. If Phazon is gone, then it makes logical sense for the Prime games to be over. But if Phazon is still around, it would not make sense because Phazon would still be corrupting planets everywhere. Your example with the return of Metroids does not work because the series is called Metroid, naturally meaning that without Metroids, the series has nowhere left to go. The Prime trilogy ended because of the end of Phazon, thus Metroid would have ended without Metroids. It was Nintendo's only option, but they never released a statement prior saying that Metroids would not be returning, because Metroid without Metroids would have been suicide. Likewise, it never said anywhere in the manual to Metroid II or super Metroid that the events of the Prime trilogy could not have occured. The statement at the end of Metroid Prime 3 conclusively states that Phazon will not be returning, while the manuals said nothing conclusive about the events between Metroid and Metroid II. Even if Phazon is not gone, since Retro has said that it will not featured again, thet means a statement similarly to the previously removed sentence should be written into this history page. If Phazon is not going to be a plot point again, then the Space Pirates and other villians must be unable to access it in whatever manner. In that case, even if you are correct, then a statement should still be written saying "All access to Phazon was lost(and/or cut off.)" It achieves nothing by saying that Phazon is still around, since it will never return no matter what. User:Tuckerscreator 14:06 21 May 2009 :good points but DS didn't die because she was connected with phazon, she died because you blew her the hell up To the anonymous user who has been frequenting the talk pages and recently commented on this one: if you intend to continue on Wikitroid, then you should get an account. So far, you have only been engaging in debate on this site, and while that is not a bad thing, as debate is a very useful way to correct oneself and others, but if you continue to argue without actually attempting to improve the site, you will find yourself in some trouble with the administrators here. Now that we have that out of the way, Dark Samus's death was in fact due to Phazon's death because there is no other plausible answer. Dark Samus was throughly beaten on Aether, and yet she appeared again on Dark Aether, only to be beaten again, but reform again. The only likely answer is that her psuedo-immortality is due to her life-force being connected to Phazon. No Phazon, no Dark Samus. User:Tuckerscreator 17:36 21 May 2009 References So I'm going to go through this this page and add all the sources. Sorry if I have to do this through multiple edits but it's a lot of sources to go through and I don't have a lot of time. Speaking of which, we need to enact a sources policy. Too many pages are unsourced and use statements such as: " as confirmed in the manga" or "as seen in Echoes." This is what sources are for and we need to put more sources to make sure that what is being put up is not fanon. Unfortunately, this wiki does not have a "How to:Sources" page. I had to teach myself from scratch on how to cite sources in order to write the sources on this page. We need to fix that. To DragonTetra, thanks for making that edit about Phazon and not being a bad sport about the debate. Thanks also for notifying me about how I left out Weavel when writing this. Since you're more well versed in Metroid Prime Hunters than I am, then you should probably look it over and see if there's anything important I missed. Also, I chose to put the K-2L raid, Weavel's Quest, and the BSL Mystery all in the same section because, while they are important events to cover, they either did relatively little in the grand scheme of things or simply did not have enough Pirates in there to be part of their full history. To Chozoboy, I noticed that when you were reverting my article, you changed the section on Super Metroid to "The Fourth Zebes campaign." But how is it the fourth? I only count two, maybe three if you count the Pirate's actions on Zebes when they were already there before they got the Metroids. One more thing, How do you put something in a section so the section gains its very own "scroll down-scroll up" bar?--Tuckerscreator 00:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC) :I don't mind the multiple edits if they are necessary for something important. I don't know much about Wiki citations, but we do need either someone who is a bit more specialized in that or an easy reference. :I don't mind the minor events being included or separated, but it could certainly work either way. Actually, Weavel might help to break up the Phazon story and provide more perspective. It would definately have to be indented or something, though. SM is the fourth Pirate campain at Zebes. The first is the one that brought the Badger Glove and was before Samus arrived. The second is the focus of the 2002 manga when she is on the GF Police force. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 01:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC) Okay, Let's count them up. :1. Bajar Grove.(Does this really count as a campaign? I mean, it was only one Pirate!) :2. Invasion by Pirates when Samus is in Federation Police. :3. Metroid Cloning/Metroid: Zero Mission. (This could technically be considered as simply the same as the 2nd, as the Pirates were already on Zebes to begin with.) :4. Metroid Cloning 2/Super Metroid. It looks like two to me, *maybe* three, four is pushing it, and the reader will likely get confused, as reading this article, they'll only count two. So our options are to: :1. Change the article to cover the other two, though it will be a largely useless edit, as the extra campaigns are so small. :2. Change the title to "The 2nd Zebes Campaign", which makes more sense to me, and likely to the reader. Oh, and part of the reason why I put Weavel's quest at the bottom was because I didn't want to have to break up the Phazon section, sice it would force me to make his quest into a mainsection when it was really such a small event, and thus one could not see the events of Phazon unfold smoothly, because his story would get in the way. Oh, and can you please show how to make that scroll bar? I did it once by accident but I don't know how I did it. --Tuckerscreator 01:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC) The Badger Glove thing wasn't just one Pirate. http://www.onemanga.com/Metroid/2/20/ Yes, the Pirates occupied Zebes from the second through fourth, but each time the GF thought they were no longer operating from there and there were years in between each event. The second and third were likely further apart than the third and fourth. I don't think Weavel would get in the way. Seems like it would give better perspective of the events, to me. The K-2L part should definately be up top, though. It very much represents the state of the Pirates at the time. I don't see a template for scroll boxes here, so I wouldn't know past that. ChozoBoy http://metroid.wikia.com ADMIN (Talk/ ) 16:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC) I think you should either make it the 3rd Zebes campaign or put in the "campaign" for the Bajar Grove. 23:42, December 8, 2010 (UTC) History articles Anyone ever going to do more of these? The Chozo, Federation, and maybe Metroids could use them. ChozoBoy (Talk/ ) 19:51, March 8, 2011 (UTC) :On a different note, I was thinking about some relationship articles. Like Samus and Adam relationship, that's quite expanded on thanks to Other M. Many other wikis have them so that could be something interesting to work on. [[User:Hellkaiserryo12|''Hell''Kaiserryo12]]ADMIN] (Talk• ) 20:11, March 8, 2011 (UTC) I would like to do history of those things as well as Ridley, but we all remember what happened with the Samus history page and I would like to see it resurrected only if you'll allow it to stay. --[[User:RoyboyX|''Р''oй''б''oй''X]] (Talk • • UN) 21:40, March 9, 2011 (UTC) monologue If it's unused where does it come from?Mike Gilbert 23:09, June 19, 2012 (UTC) |: The Pirates have attacked Zebes four times?Mike Gilbert 23:34, June 19, 2012 (UTC) :It's on the disc's code. 'ChozoBoy''' (Talk/ ) 09:20, June 20, 2012 (UTC)